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  Claim of Loss of Memory

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Author Topic:   Claim of Loss of Memory
blalock
Member
posted 12-03-2008 12:37 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blalock   Click Here to Email blalock     Edit/Delete Message
I have an offender who does not deny having sexual intercourse with her 16 year old step son, but claims to have no memory of it due to her use of ambien.

I plan on using the following:

*************

On or about January 6, 2008, do you remember engaging in sexual contact with _____?

On or about January 6, 2008, do you remember engaging in sexual contact with _____ in any way?

At any time from December 1, 2007 to January 6, 2008, do you remember engaging in sexual contact with _____?

*************
I am going to use directed lie comparisons and the Utah ZCT.

Gang, what are your thoughts and comments...

------------------
Ben

blalockben@hotmail.com

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rnelson
Member
posted 12-03-2008 01:27 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rnelson   Click Here to Email rnelson     Edit/Delete Message
Ben:

VALID!

quote:

On or about January 6, 2008, do you remember engaging in sexual contact with _____?

On or about January 6, 2008, do you remember engaging in sexual contact with _____ in any way?

At any time from December 1, 2007 to January 6, 2008, do you remember engaging in sexual contact with


That's how I would do it.

But why not this for the last question?

At any time during January 2008, do you remember engaging in sexual contact with _?

Is December 2007 part of the allegation. If not, some might call that an "inserted case fact" that is not part of the allegation. Testing and clearing someone on a behavior that is not part if the allegation is of little value - unless its a PCSOT case that would fit the proposed model policy definintion of the IOI case, in which testing for additional un-disclosed activities, within the instant offense, is the testing objective.

I believe your questions are consistent with the model policy, which states that asking about motivation or intent is acceptable after an admission of the behavioral facts. They don't specifically address memory, but it would appear that the same principles should apply.

This is an example of something that got fixed after APA 2008. At that time, the presentation materials stated repeatedly that asking about "culpable mental status" was acceptable. This, of course, opens up all kinds of silly invitations to engage in in-defensible testing of mens rhea concerns. The present solution, as reflected in Holden's materials from the UPA and MRP conferences (to allow test questions about sexual motivation following an admission of the behavioral facts), seems good.

It's a compromise from the hard-line stance of asking behaviorally descriptive questions that are free of references to mental status, motivation or intent. However, it would be unfortunate to lose the ability to thoroughly excavate these case for what they most often are - lies.

I have seen perhaps one or two people who seem truly not to recall their offense. In both cases, there were obvious and overt causes for the lack of memory - chronic alcohoism accompanied with repetitive indecency behaviors during long periods of indigency/homelessness. They also told the story of the offense factually from a firs-person voice, while a lot of people who don't pass these questions seem to start with some version of "I don't know what happened..."

Victims sometimes do not recall an offense, and I have seen more than one victim claim no memory while mixing simple cold-medications (i.e., Benadryl) with alcohol.

An Ambien case has got to be very interesting.

.02


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"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)


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cpolys
Member
posted 12-03-2008 02:11 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for cpolys     Edit/Delete Message
I did a brief, two minute, search on Ambien and memory loss. There is a significant amount of information available. The general information indicated the loss of memory occurs while the individual is using the medication. Here is link with some information:

http://injury.findlaw.com/ambien/ambien-faq.html

Was the individual prescribed the medication at the time of the contact?
Marty


[This message has been edited by cpolys (edited 12-03-2008).]

[This message has been edited by cpolys (edited 12-03-2008).]

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blalock
Member
posted 12-03-2008 02:16 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for blalock   Click Here to Email blalock     Edit/Delete Message
Yes, the Offender was being prescribed Ambien at the time of these incidents. The allegation is that she had sexual intercourse with her step-son approximately three different times from December 2007 to January 6, 2008.

------------------
Ben

blalockben@hotmail.com

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rnelson
Member
posted 12-03-2008 02:41 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rnelson   Click Here to Email rnelson     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
The allegation is that she had sexual intercourse with her step-son approximately three different times from December 2007 to January 6, 2008.

In that case, I'd suggest using the Dec 1 07 to Jan 6 08 time delimter with each question.

Three times? This begs an obvious concern for how she gained his compliance on three different occasions. It appears there may be some other behavioral or relationship context surrounding this assault.


r

------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)


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ckieso
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posted 12-03-2008 03:42 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ckieso   Click Here to Email ckieso     Edit/Delete Message
Could it be that the 16 year old step-son took advantage of the step-mother when she was not in the proper state of mind?

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Taylor
Member
posted 12-03-2008 03:48 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for Taylor   Click Here to Email Taylor     Edit/Delete Message
ckieso: That was my thought. Did the report state she was acting like a sloppy drunk?

Regardless, good questions Ben.

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rnelson
Member
posted 12-03-2008 05:08 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for rnelson   Click Here to Email rnelson     Edit/Delete Message
quote:
Could it be that the 16 year old step-son took advantage of the step-mother when she was not in the proper state of mind?

Regardless,

16 year-olds, can be thought of a little like adults, with lots of uncontrolled hormones, poor judgement, and limited life-experience - that's why we call them "juveniles" and keep all kinds of restrictions on some of their activities.


She is the adult, and in a parental role.

.02

r

------------------
"Gentlemen, you can't fight in here. This is the war room."
--(Stanley Kubrick/Peter Sellers - Dr. Strangelove, 1964)


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ckieso
Member
posted 12-03-2008 05:32 PM     Click Here to See the Profile for ckieso   Click Here to Email ckieso     Edit/Delete Message
I completely agree. However, without knowing the full case facts I asked that question.

She may have been unconscious or unable to consent when the sex acts occurred and is therefore a victim of the step-son. The step-son may have then reported that she was the instigator. I have no idea, but am just asking the questions to get a better understanding of the case.

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